Transcript

Hi, welcome to the Somatic
Coaching Academy Podcast.

Here we are for episode 148.
Hi, Ani.

Hi, Brian.
How are you?

I’m good.
How are you?

I’m well, and you?

I’m very good, thank you.
And you?

And well?

I wanted to have a conversation with you
today about something that’s

been coming up recently.
Oh, all right.

So let’s converse.
What are we talking about today, Ani?

People are asking about the difference
between coaching from a doing state

and coaching from a being state.

So I wanted to talk about
that on the podcast today.

Okay, so what’s the—what’s the—

yeah, what’s the difference
between those two things?

Well, I think that’s what
I want to talk about.

Um, and so I kind of want to start
with this idea around how

in the coaching industry there’s
so many different kinds of coaches.

So it’s, uh, it’s hard to kind of nail it
down because different people orient

themselves around different
philosophies what even coaching means.

I mean, for some coaches, like
ICF-oriented coaches,

they’re going to orient themselves around
the fact that everybody

holds wisdom within them.

The idea around coaching is to help
somebody to tap into their own innate

wisdom and partner with a client to be
able to do that so that the client

can kind of make their own decisions.

But that’s not how
everybody thinks about coaching.

Like there are
nutrition coaches and there are

fitness coaches,
and they’re probably every single coach

you can possibly imagine kind of coaches.

There’s ADHD coaches and there’s all
these different kinds of coaches.

And so one of the things we talk about
with our students a lot is

what they should call themselves
as coaches, what they should call

themselves and how they should, uh, market
themselves and, and talk about themselves.

And I think it’s important to remember
that when we’re out there talking about

ourselves as coaches,
the people we’re talking to,

our prospective clients,
they’ve had potentially a lot of different

experience with a lot of different
kinds of coaching professionals.

Yeah, so that’s an interesting point,
Annie, because like,

think about athletic coaches.

Yeah, like, so like athletic coaches,
I probably do not believe that their

athletes have the wisdom inside of
themselves of how to block, tackle, pass.

I’m thinking about football, right?
Right.

So football coaches are not like,
you know what to do, go do it.

No, they’re like,
this is how you hold your arm,

this is how you step,
this is where you do, you do 3,

you know, those sorts of things.

Or this is how you do this move
in wrestling, or this is how

you shoot the basketball.

So the coaching is really driven a lot
more from kind of teaching, right?

Teaching skills or those kinds of things.
Yeah.

So you’re right, just the term
coaching can sometimes be confusing

and depending on, well,
do all coaches believe that everyone

has the inherent wisdom inside of them?
Obviously not.

No, no, not all coaching professionals do.

Yeah, but, um,
ICF coaching professionals do,

or professional,
like, coaching professionals do in terms

of exact— do you know what I mean?
So it gets a little confusing.

So this is a good conversation.

It does get confusing.

And some people who are listening,
some of our listeners are already coaches

and you know,
have had their own experience with what

it’s like to be in the marketplace
that can be so confusing.

And some people are wanting to be coaches,
um, and there’s also people who are

listening who want to use coaching skills.

And I think that’s really important.

Like, for example,
I get a lot of questions from moms,

you know, and, um, they want to know how I
can best interact with my family, my kids.

And a lot of times they’re asking,
how do I use coaching skills You know,

my mom was like my first coach.

She was really good
at asking me questions.

She was also really good at giving advice,
but that wasn’t kind of the coaching

skills I’m talking about.

That’s more of the coaching skill— like
giving advice would be like the football

coach you’re talking about, right?

So I think what makes it confusing is just
even when we bring up the term coaching,

what the hell are we talking about?

So giving advice does not
mean it’s not coaching, right?

Because depends on what kind
of coaching you’re getting.

Exactly.

So even for someone to say, oh,
that’s not coaching,

because you’re not approaching it
from the inherent wisdom within

them actually isn’t accurate either.
Correct.

Because coaching in some
fields can be giving advice.

Exactly.
Or teaching a skill.

Exactly.

And in other fields coaching is not giving
advice and not teaching a skill, it’s

pulling forth someone’s inherent wisdom.
Right.

So potentially even being more clear about
what is that a particular coach

actually does becomes really important.

Exactly, exactly.

And this isn’t, I mean, we’re just like,
kind of swimming around the surfaces

of this conversation about
doing versus being right now.

It’s, um, it’s important.

So when the coaching profession came up,
a lot of people think that it came to be—

a lot of people think it came
from sports coaching, but it didn’t.

It came from the idea of the stagecoach.

Did you know that?

I remember reading something about this.

So I think what you’re talking about right
now about how we don’t even really know

what coaching means is interesting because
A lot of people know the term coach

from a sports coach,
and yet when they created the coaching

profession,
they created it based on a stagecoach

and the idea of what a stagecoach does,
which by the way, I can’t

like rattle it off right now.

I have to look it up.

Well, stagecoach follows the horses.

Oh, well, there you go.
Maybe that’s part of it.

Horses pull the stagecoach.

The stage— the coach comes after.

It’s— yeah, it’s not like the stagecoach
is like running the operation

with a motor, right?

Um, so it’s like metaphorically like that.

But I mean, that right
there is kind of confusing.

So anyway, I wanted to show an Alvi—

because it’s the same word, yeah, for two
different, totally different ideas.

Wow, that’s interesting.
Yeah, right?

Yeah.

So I actually want to leave
the conversation right where we have it,

in a mud puddle of confusion.

I’m going to leave
the conversation right now.

I’m just kidding.

Mud puddle of confusion.

The reason I want to leave it here is
because I think it’s really important

for us to remember that people may or may
not know what we’re talking about

when we talk about coaching.

Correct.
Yeah, I’m becoming very clear.

I’m confused now.

So I just,
I just want to leave it there and actually

move towards this
doing versus being kind of thing.

Okay, you think, do you think that’s why
it’s important Or do you think it’s

important in the marketplace to always put

a qualifier in front of the word coaching?

Like we say somatic coaching.

Somatic coach, life coach,
executive coach.

Yeah, is that why it’s
so important to do that?

Because then it gives someone an idea,
at least gives them an idea about what

kind of universe you’re working in.

This is a different podcast for me.

I can answer your question, but I think
we should do another podcast about it.

Different podcast, okay.
It’s a whole nother half hour.

Okay, okay.

So, um,
this thing about doing versus being— so

kind of the same problem with the whole
thing that we just got into about how

who even knows what coaching means.

Your prospects might think it means
something different than you think

when you’re talking about it.

Um, there’s this— there’s,
there’s different ways to approach

coaching from a doing
place or a being place.

And I think getting clear
and understanding where one is coming

from as the coach—
let’s not even talk about talking

to prospective clients right now or
talking to your clients—

getting clear about who you are as a coach
is number one, foundationally

incredibly important.

And by the way,
I have zero judgment about this because

I think both are really important.

And important for different
people in different places.

But what’s the difference?

So a coach who’s orienting themselves
around a doing state is more of like you

were talking about this, uh,
the sports coach kind of example.

Or I’m going to use a different
example, like a nutrition coach.

And by the way,
maybe not all nutrition coaches,

so I’m not labeling nutrition coaches.

I’m saying think about
who you are and how you coach.

Do you approach it like this?

So I could, for example,
be a nutrition coach.

And what I’ve learned in my coach training
as a nutrition coach

is how to meet a client and help them get
to a goal by telling them to do A

and B and C and D, or 1 and 2 and 3 and 4.

So I’m going to help a client get to a

goal by orienting around what they do.
Sure.

That is one kind of coaching.

Then there’s coaching that orients
around the being state.

And the being state
is, is different in that how I’m feeling,

how I am, who I am, what I value, what I,
um,

love— like, there’s all kinds of different
ways to orient around being state.

Informs what I do.

And if I’m not happy about what I’m doing,
then if I orient around

how I’m being or who I’m being,
that can change what I’m doing.

So back to the nutrition example,
let’s say that perhaps,

Brian— I’m just pulling examples out
of my head, this means absolutely nothing—

that you eat too much crunchy cereal.
Okay.

As a hypothetical.
I don’t know where you pulled that from.

I don’t know.
I just— I’m very imaginative.

Okay.

And you want to stop eating
crunchy cereal, right?

Okay.
And so a doing-based—

But I don’t want to stop
eating crunchy cereal.

Just pretend with me.
Okay.

All right.
For the purposes of our listeners.

All right.

Okay, Ani, I would like to not
eat as much crunchy cereal.

I’ve got my fingers crossed down below.

No one can see us, so it’s like I’m not
telling a lie or something like that.

Okay, okay, please help me stop
eating so much crunchy cereal, Ani.

Okay, so a coach who’s coming from a doing

state would do something like say, hit me.

No, I’m gonna say something worse.

Don’t, don’t keep crunchy
cereal in the house, Brian.

I feel so alone.

I actually feel a little guilty.

Okay, that’s good.

You like the crunchy cereal too?
I do, I do.

But you know, I’m pretending I’m the coach
right now, and now you’re getting angry at

the doing-based coaching that I’m doing.
Take away my—

don’t tell me what to do,
which is one of the reasons why

doing-based cereal
coaching is hard for me.

But anyway, we’re getting off track.
Okay, got you.

Doing this coaching is going to
go at the level of the action, right?

Like the behavior.
You’re going after the behavior.

Yeah, get it, get it,
get that out of your house.

And then like substitute it with fruits
and vegetables, or eat celery

instead of crunchy cereal.

So that’s more of the
doing-based coaching.

Can I put peanut butter on my celery?

Can I put peanut butter on my cereal?

I mean,
The being-based coaching is going to ask

questions like, tell me what
it’s like to crunch, Brian.

Oh, I love the crunch.
Yeah.

Oh, it’s so crunchy and munchy,
and I can hear it and I can

taste it, and I love the—

and you’re gonna help the person
to understand, like,

who they’re being when they’re
interacting with this behavior.

I have a different example so we can get
off of crunchy cereal here for a second.

I have a story that I just, I love.

This was from many years ago, was
maybe the second year we were running our

certification program,
and I was doing some coaching

with the students,
and I was doing being-based coaching.

And the behavior that the client didn’t
like was that they were

watching too much television.

And so I started to talk to them about how
it felt when they watched TV

and what they were getting out of it.

And the action step that we got out
of that that session was that the client

was actually going to watch TV.

Let’s not say more often because they were
already watching it like

more than they wanted to, but like
they were going to keep watching TV as

their action step and they were going
to become aware of when they watched TV,

how they felt in their body,
specifically how good it felt,

where they felt good, and they were
going to appreciate those good feelings.

So after that client session,
which was being done in front of

all the students, I had a client
send me a direct message immediately.

“I can’t believe you actually just told
them to watch more TV and to sit there

and like it.” Really bothered somebody.

And like, I understood and I validated
where that person was and, you know,

they had their own stuff
to work through, obviously.

But the point was that this person was
gonna really start to,

to develop an awareness around their being
state, who they were being while they were

watching TV, so that they could then
make the moves if they wanted to following

that experiment to shift their
action to something different.

But first, you’re really gonna see like
what’s going on in there, you know?

We might get involved, I mean,
we here at Somatic Coaching Academy are

doing all kinds of things
about sensations and feelings.

We might get interested in emotions.

We might even get interested in things
like value and identity,

Who are you when you get to sit
and watch TV and those kinds of things?

And that’s really the difference
about between the doing

coaching and the being coaching.

I know some of our
listeners are interested in hearing about

the difference and also want to like find
themselves in this conversation, you know.

So if you’re listening and you’re
already a coach, what are you?

Have you identified yourself like
that before to be able

to understand the difference?

Do you want to add
some of the doing coaching or

some of the being coaching, right?
Like balance it out.

That was great, Dax.
I think that’s kind of interesting.

How to become
skillful and masterful at knowing when

to do the doing coaching
versus the being coaching.

Right.

And if we’re doing—
well, I guess I’m answering my question

based on what we had before.

There’s no right or wrong around
coaching because coaching can be both.

Doing-focused or coaching
can be being-focused.

I’m guessing though,
depending on how you were trained,

you may have an affinity for one more than
the other, which may mean that you

actually have a negative affinity or
a repulsion for one or the other as well.

So could it be that someone gets so
identified with being

a being-centered coach?
They could be missing something.

By not doing doing-centered that they’re
missing something, or vice versa,

becomes a block for them,
or vice versa, or vice versa.

Exactly.
I think there’s real benefit to both.

It’s one of the things that I love about
our certification programs,

because like in the Level 1 program,
people really are learning more about

doing coaching by helping
people to do somatic practices.

Those are things that we do with them.

We’re more the expert because
the person hasn’t learned them before.

We’re teaching them those kinds of things.

So there’s that doing component in there.

There’s also other aspects in our
programs where we do some doing work.

There’s also,
especially once you get into Level 2

and Level 3,
a bunch of aspects around the being state.

Because one of the cool kind of things
that I really like about being coaching is

it’s not just about helping the person
to be who, how they are,

but it’s also how we are.

As a coach in our being state
that influences the other person,

the coachee, in the coaching relationship.

And so it has this like
kind of kaleidoscope effect.

Yeah, so there’s some sense of coherence,
physiological coherence, entrainment,

mirror therapy— or I’m sorry,
mirror neurons, mirror energies kind

of things are happening as well, right?

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
Yeah.

So I like, I like your thought about that,
about the balance, because

for me as a practitioner and what I’ve
noticed for our students,

finding that balance is really cool.

And one of the things that people say all
the time when they do work with us is,

this is the missing piece.

I think one of the reasons for that is
because a lot of people

have been a part of doing programs before,
whether they’ve been the coachee

or even they’ve been the coach, you know,
that they’re like,

this is the missing piece.

And one of the reasons,
one of the reasons for that is because

of the coaching from the being
state that they get.

I mean, there’s there’s a few different
reasons for that people say that,

but I think that’s, that’s one of them.
Yeah.

You know, one of the things that’s
occurring to me as we’re,

as we’re talking about this is
oftentimes in Level 1, right,

in the Somatic Practice Essentials program
and the Core Centering Certification

program, people will give me scenarios
around, well, what if this happens,

or what if the client does this,
or what if they do this?

My answer almost always is,
from the start, is you have to always

meet the person where they are.

You have to know
where your client is or where your class

is that you’re, that you’re leading.

You have to always meet
them where they are.

And so it’s not only from a coaching
of being versus doing state, it’s not

only like, as the coach,
how do I want to balance doing and being?

It’s understanding what my client needs.
Exactly.

Right.

And so I always have to understand where,
what does my client need right now?

And I’ve certainly done coaching where
I’ve gone in and led with the being state

and there’s just a block around it and we
need to do some doing coaching to help

move someone, like get off the hump
that they’re on to get them into the place

where we can go back and do some
being coaching again, sort of thing.

But it’s always about meeting people where

they are to help create a more fluid

process through the coaching, knowing that
resistance is going to come up, right?

So that comes up in every
transformational process.

So every coach, is going to meet,
meet their client’s resistance

at some point in time.

So as the coach,
that gives us an opportunity to decide

where is the client right now
and what tools, skills, or in this case

being versus doing,
is more important to do right now to help

people move more easily through
the resistance they have.

Yes, for the process
that they’ve enrolled in.

Exactly, because resistance is wily.

And so having both the doing and the being
allows you to kind wiggle

through those tough parts
to be able to navigate the resistance

to help somebody get
the transformation they’re looking for.

Because really, at the end of the day,
that’s what we’re— that’s

why we love what we do.

We love what we do for the breakthroughs
and the transformations

that we get for our clients.
And that’s what the client has paid for.

Exactly.

So the client has hired you as the coach
to help them get a new result,

and resistance is going to come up that it
may look like all of a sudden they don’t

want that result anymore
halfway through the process.

So a skillful coach is knowing
that balance of how do I meet my client

where they are with the doing versus being
to actually help them move that resistance

to actually get the result that they have,
um, that they’ve enlisted for.

Exactly, exactly.

Well, thanks for having
this conversation, Brian.

Great conversation, really good one.

And listeners, let us know
what you think about it.

You can write us an email,
leave us a comment below the, uh,

wherever you’re watching or
listening to the podcast.

We want to know your thoughts too.

And until then, we will see you next week.
See you next week.

Bye-bye.