Ep #28 The Power of Somatic Practices in Managing Anxiety and Depression

by | May 9, 2024 | Core Centering, Healing, SCA Podcast, Stress Relief

The Somatic Coaching Academy Podcast

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Ani
Hi, and welcome to the Somatic Coaching Academy podcast. Hey there, Brian.

Brian
Hey, Ani.

Ani
Hi. How are you? I’ve gotten so much great feedback about the episodes we just did about decision making. Been getting emails and letters, and people are really getting a lot out of it. The comments have been great. And I just want to remind the listeners that if you like the podcast, please rate and review it. So if you’re watching on YouTube, you can give a thumbs up, you can leave a reply, you can share it on social media. If you’re on Spotify, you can give it the stars. If you’re on Apple podcast, you can give it the stars, and you can leave a review. A lot of the people in our community, not unlike us, are more introverted folks. And I think a lot of times the way that we really think that we’re sharing the wisdom is by reflecting on it, which is awesome. I love that. And the way that other people get to share in the wisdom is actually by us, extraverting out and doing something to say, Hey, you should check this out. Sometimes for me, I find that when I go to share something on social media or even tell a friend about it, I can feel like it sometimes takes something away from how special or how reverent topic or wisdom was.

Ani
But actually, folks, if we want to help the world be a better place, we do need to do things like share the wisdom that really makes a difference for us and share that reverence. Even when it feels like sometimes putting it on social media or doing something what feels superficial or trivial, like adding the stars can feel superficial. But it’s really helpful for other people to know that the podcast matters because new people who don’t know us will come to the podcast. And the automatic way that we evaluate whether or not a podcast is worthy of our time is to look at how many stars there are and read reviews. So thank you, listeners, for sharing your thoughts with us. And we highly encourage you to share those thoughts and stars and reviews with other people, too, so that they can decide to come and do things like make great decisions for themselves. So this episode, Brian, is episode 28.

Brian
28.

Ani
Here we are. Great. I’m excited to get into it with you. So what are we talking about today?

Brian
So today we are talking about somatic practices for anxiety and depression.

Ani
That’s great. I was just reading some studies. I don’t think I need to pull out any fancy statistics for us all to know that anxiety and depression are a big deal while we live in the United States. In the United States, it’s a really big deal. A lot of people are suffering with those things.

Brian
I actually have those statistics ready, so you don’t have to go dig them out anywhere, Honey.

Ani
I love you. Thank you.

Brian
You got it. Yeah.

Ani
Of course, you do.

Brian
Yeah. So anxiety is one of the most common mental wellness challenges in the US. I didn’t specifically look globally for numbers. I can only imagine that this correlates globally. Across the world, obviously, similar to the way it would be in the US. In the US, 40 million adults deal with anxiety, and 5.8 million children deal with anxiety on a regular basis.

Ani
All right. I got to take my first little side trip here for just a second. The kids really is staggering for me. I’ve been reading about recently what a big epidemic anxiety is for young people nowadays. Hey, listen, we can blame it on a lot of stuff, but I think we’re living in an unprecedented time where we don’t really know until 30, 40 years from now the effects of some of the things that our young people are dealing with. We also are making assumptions based on how we grew up about some of the things that young people have to navigate, for example, having phones and computers at their disposal so early. So we make assumptions on those things based on how we grew up. But my point is that one of the best things that we can do for kids and teenagers and young people as people who are older than them are to be great role models, and we could explain the energetics. We’re not going to go on that path today. But to be great role models in terms of taking care of our own nervous systems and our own anxiety and using natural methods and somatic practices to be able to do that so that the kids can see us as grownups, really taking care of ourselves and our nervous systems.

Ani
That can make a huge impact.

Brian
Yeah, I think it certainly can, Ani. And a lot of this comes back. We’re going to talk about core centering as a somatic practice. And just a few weeks ago, we had an open class, a public class that people were able to come to. We did core centering for anxiety. And so some of this stuff ties together. And in that class, it was really interesting. As people entered into the Zoom room, we asked questions. Of course, we always want to know where you’re from and your name and where you are in the world and those kinds of things. And we had people from all over the world join us. But some of the questions we asked was, how would you define anxiety? It was interesting. Everyone had a little bit different take on it, but it formulated around a cluster of information, which we’re going to talk a little bit more about. Then the question I asked was, Well, what does it feel like in your body? How would you describe anxiety? It was really fascinating. We had all these responses come in, and there was a locus of answers around the sensation of tightness.

Brian
I haven’t gone back and actually looked, but just my estimation, 90% of the answers focused around tightness somewhere, which I thought was really fascinating, because when we think about anxiety energetically, which we talked about in this class, we went a little deeper into the understanding of what an anxiety looks like energetically and what parts of the body are featured around those problems and why somatic practices are helpful for those things, which you can touch a little bit on today since we’re here talking about somatic practices for anxiety and depression. But I just thought that there was an interesting commonality around that sensation of tightness with anxiety.

Ani
Yeah, you bring up a good point because from a sensation-based model, we’re always asking where you feel things and what they feel like, because we make an assumption sometimes when we’re just talking about emotions that you experience things like I experience things, but we actually don’t experience things the same way, and we can experience emotions in different ways that we want to choose when we can take apart from a sensation-based how things feel. So that’s really interesting to notice some of the commonalities with that.

Brian
When you look at the root of the word anxiety, and you look at the root of it, the root of it is the word angst in German. And when you define that word angst, it translates as choking in the narrows. A choking in the narrows. And so when you think about this idea of tightness, people are describing it as tightness. And the historical definition of it is choking in the narrows, we’re talking about there’s a tightness, there’s a choking, there’s a squeezing. We know that anxiety always correlates to breath, a problem with breathing.

Ani
Sure. Both directions. Choking, you said. So like that breath tie in right there.

Brian
Exactly. There’s some really interesting historical tie-ins with the whole idea of anxiety, how we’re seeing it in more modern implications and those sorts of things. But it’s really interesting.

Ani
Do you know how anxiety relates to panic? Because for me, when I experience anxiety things, it’s almost like a low-level panic that if I don’t do something about, could turn into panic.

Brian
Yeah. Well, anxiety is on a spectrum, certainly. There’s general anxiety disorders where there’s this background anxiety that runs. There’s anxiety disorders that are more on that panic type spectrum, where there’s a lot of energy and there’s a lot of sympathetic nervous system activity that’s going on in the body. It depends on where you are in that spectrum. One of the interesting things when you look at studies on anxiety, especially general anxiety disorders, that one of the commonalities with that, and people did mention this in that open class when we asked them, it’s like, Well, why do you think it happens? What’s the future of it? And the whole idea of worry was a big part of that. Okay. So general anxiety is because when we do somatic work with people and we ask them about, where do you feel something? What does it feel like? Lots of times people describe the same sensations for anxiety as they do for excitement. And so what’s the difference? A lot of times the difference is context. Emotions are always steeped in context. So we can’t separate that piece of it from it. And so some of that context of anxiety is worry.

Brian
And worry is really we’re fantasizing about something in the future that could possibly go wrong.

Ani
That’s right.

Brian
There’s another feature of it. It’s always something we have no control over.

Ani
Oh, interesting. Oh, that makes so much sense.

Brian
It’s actually- that’s another feature of it. Because if we had control over it, we wouldn’t worry about it. We would take action in order to mitigate the foreseeable problem.

Ani
It’s this perception that we don’t have control.

Brian
We don’t have control. The idea is we’re visualizing in the future about a problem, and the other future of it is we just can’t control it, which doubles back on itself, which creates and feeds more worry and more anxiety. Because you don’t have control. Right. You can see how that loop happens. It’s really fascinating.

Ani
Why did you decide to pair anxiety with depression for this conversation?

Brian
Well, I think because they’re two of the most common, what people would call mental health challenges. Now, certainly at the Somatic Coaching Academy, we never, ever consider anything just a mental health challenge. We’re always experiencing everything… We experience on energetic levels, physical, mental-emotional. We’re always on those levels. If we break these down for a moment, if we just look at anxiety first, what are some of the features of anxiety from an energetic perspective? When it comes to somatic practices, it’s really important that we understand that.

Ani
Sure. Well, before we get into that, why don’t we talk about somatic practices and what that is? I actually have been noticing on social media more and more people talking about… Well, to be fair, it’s ads. I’m noticing a lot of ads recently about somatic exercises. So I had to Google it, Brian, because I didn’t know what the difference was or how… I didn’t know how people were conceptualizing a difference, but the ads that I’m seeing out there are, for example, people doing yoga kinds of stretches and calling them somatic exercises and talking about how our body holds trauma and it can heal your trauma or release things that are held in the body. I was like, this sounds similar, but it also might be different. How are people conceptualizing it? I asked the Google because the Google knows all. Google didn’t really have a good response for me. The exact thing I asked was, what’s the difference between somatic practices and somatic exercises? We need to write an article about that because I’m sure I’m not the only person in the world who’s going to Google that and come come up with, like Google really didn’t have a good explanation.

Ani
So I read through a few things, and the best I could come up with was that somatic practices and somatic exercises are basically being used interchangeably out there in the world. I just want to say that for listeners if they’re also having that same query, because I’m sure I’m not the only one. So how would you classify somatic practices?

Brian
Well, so somatic practices certainly are an umbrella term for research. I think the whole reason that somatic practices, that term was coined, was for researchers to be able to look at the efficacy of things like Tai chi, things like qigong, things like yoga, things like breath work, things like mindfulness practices, and put them all under one umbrella for research. What are we going to call this? That’s awesome. Somatic practice is, I think where that term started being born from. Was to look at what are the commonalities amongst all of these historical, ancient, reverent practices that create physiological, energetic, mental, emotional changes in a human being. So somatic practices take up that whole umbrella.

Ani
I’m really happy about that, actually, because, gosh, it must have been about 12 years ago that you and I were studying Tai chi and QiGong, and one of the reasons you wanted to study it was at that time as a practicing private practice, physical therapist, you were starting to see that the research was pointing towards the power of Tai chi and Qigong practices, specifically for physical therapy. It was a brand new thing. It was like the new thing that researchers figured out that Tai chi and Qigong could help physical therapy. It was an exciting time. I’m excited about what you’re saying about somatic practices because I can see the widening of that umbrella so that we can say, Hey, Tai chi and Qigong, yes. But not only Tai chi and QiGong. There’s a number of different ways that we can really tap into the things that are meaningful and work for each of us. And there are similarities about these things. Also, you know what else it does that I really like? It takes that potentially competitive nature between Tai chi and yoga and just cuts that out. Because some people are more inclined to love yoga, and some people are more inclined to love Tai chi or different kinds of practices.

Ani
And we can all be like, Hey, all of us practice somatic practices. And I love that about it.

Brian
Yeah. It can really bring us together more in community and make somatic practices a part of everyday life.

Ani
One more thing about that. Make it a part of everyday life. Exactly. So we’re seeing somatic practices everywhere now. We were just talking to some of our students this morning about how they’re bringing somatic practices into organizations, and we’re seeing more and more of that, which is so exciting. Super exciting. Super exciting. Because twelve years ago, when we were studying Tai chi and QiGong, it’s not like there was nobody going in and doing these things in organizations, but it took a very cutting edge organization to have somebody come in and do Tai chi. And by the way, they’d come in and just like a yoga class, do a few classes, and off they go. But what we’re seeing now is that even organizations… I’ve just talked to another student yesterday who’s doing a big contract in different school districts. We’re seeing core centering, specifically, go in as somatic practices, not as tai chi, not as yoga, not as Qigong, specifically, but core centering, which is this really wonderful way to talk about somatic practices. And we see them going into mainstream as just a normal thing that people with bodies do to help themselves be better humans.

Brian
It’s just so exciting. Yeah, exactly. And another reason, too, the idea of talking about these somatic practices is so important is we know Qigong, Tai chi, yoga are mindfulness practices that are so powerful and helpful for so many things. So the research is really clear on that. I mean, there’s been so much research. There’s more research on it, which I’m glad is happening, but that’s very, very clear. And then you have to ask yourself, well, if it’s so clear, why has there been resistance to uptake of doing Tai chi, qigong, yoga? I think part of the issue is that these ideas, these practices, come from other places. Especially in the US. We’re talking about what’s the challenge with the US taking it up? Is they come from other places. Because they come from other places, like qigong and tai chi has a whole lineage in traditional Chinese medicine. Yoga, there’s a whole lineage in Ayurvedic medicine. I think because just those ideas can feel foreign to people, and they’re like, Wait, is it a religion? Exactly. Is it like, I already have my religion, and I can’t have another religion be a part of it? I’ve actually had those conversations with people, and I want to respect everyone’s ideas, religions, whatever they are.

Brian
So how can we reduce that barrier and say, Listen, we’re doing somatic practices, which means you do certain things with your body, you do certain things with your breathing, and you do certain things with your focus. And when you do those things, you’re doing somatic practices, which is why I’ve been so excited to bring core centering into, which is a somatic practice that’s based in traditional Chinese medicine, into the organizational world and schools, because there’s a little less resistant to it, because we’re talking about it from a physiological basis. We’re talking about it from who doesn’t want to be centered?

Ani
Yeah, absolutely. And it doesn’t get mixed up with all that spiritual- It doesn’t get mixed up with this stuff, right. Yeah, and people don’t kick it out.

Brian
But at the same time, it could get mixed up with that. If the teacher or person bringing it wanted to go in that direction, they certainly can.

Ani
If the audience would be excited to have that wisdom brought as a part of it. But if they’re not, no problem.

Brian
Right. Yeah. And in the core centering training, we actually teach people to go both of those directions so they understand, how can you bring this to your audience, to the people who can benefit from it most, while lowering the resistance to doing the practices so that people can benefit from it in a really powerful way. And so we teach everybody how to do that in the program. I know we’re getting a little bit off track. If we come back to anxiety for just a second, there’s something I just want to talk about from an energetic level. So why are we talking about somatic practices for anxiety and for depression? So if we think about anxiety, again, one of the features that our participants and that we know, our clients, our students tell us, what does anxiety feel like? And if you look at it from a traditional Chinese medicine lens, there’s a lot of energy in the system. We know from an autonomic nervous system perspective, there’s a lot of sympathetic nervous system activity. So there’s a lot of adrenaline, epinephrine, like norepinephrine in the system. So the system is really upticked, and there’s a lot of energy that seems to be rising in the body, which is why in anxiety, it’s oftentimes just like thoughts are spinning, a lot of ruminating thinking.

Ani
It actually takes people a second, as I’m thinking about clients through the years, to think about it when you say, Well, where do you feel that anxiety? And what does it feel like? Because they’re so identified with the thoughts of the anxiety experience that they’re like, Wait, my body? So it’s different with depression, though, yeah?

Brian
Yeah. So depression, there’s more of a sinking energy from an energy medicine perspective, from a traditional Chinese medicine perspective, there’s more of an energy that’s sinking. I think for people that experience either anxiety or depression or both, that this probably makes sense for people. So anxiety, energy rises in the body. And when the energy rises in the body, it rises to the head, which creates activity in the brain, and then lots of thinking, lots of thinking, lots of thinking. With depression, there’s more like a depletion of energy. Energy sinks down in the body, and the brain gets slower and more confused and foggy.

Ani
I don’t even know.

Brian
Simply because of where the energy is going in the body. Again, if we just look at it from an energetic perspective, anxiety is a situation where there’s a lot of energy up in the top of the body. And depression, there’s- I wouldn’t even say there’s a lot of energy in the bottom of the body. I’d say there’s actually a depletion of energy, and what energy is in the system is dropping down.

Ani
Yeah. One of the things I love at Somatic Coaching Academy is we make things super simple. We could have an entire podcast dedicated to anxiety or an entire podcast. I’m not talking about an episode, an entire podcast, hundreds of episodes dedicated to depression. We love to make things super, super simple. And so we took these major concepts and we just made it really easy to understand from an energetic perspective. Yeah.

Brian
The other thing, you know how we were talking about the breath just a couple of minutes ago? I think there’s an interesting feature with both anxiety and depression. Again, just around this energetic, the energetics and anxiety rise, depression, it sinks. Have you noticed that with anxiety, it’s really difficult to get a full exhale?

Ani
It’s a lot of (quick in-breaths)

Brian
With depression, it’s very difficult to get a complete inhale. It’s a lot of (quick out-breaths)… There’s a lot of exit. If we start thinking about how energy and breath work together and what we might do about those things, just notice those features.

Ani
Right. So pause for just a second, because what we’re talking about is somatic practices, and breathwork is a part of somatic practices, but we actually put the breath with body practices, because if we just paid attention to the breath, and what you’re saying here is the breath, I am feeding you a line. The breath, Brian, seems to be the key to something here as you’re talking about it. But also, if we just do breath work, we’re missing the fact that breath operates within a system. But is it true, Brian, that breath actually seems to be I don’t know, the handle that opens the door or something like that?

Brian
Yeah, right. That is a great saying from the secret of the golden flower. The breath is the handle of the mind. Wonderful saying. Interesting, too, when we did this class just a few weeks ago on core centering for anxiety, and I asked people, What do you typically do for anxiety? And so many people said, I breathe. I do some breath work. There’s an interesting thing that we talk about in core centering, that the breath is really powerful. At the same time, the part of the brain, part of the brain that interacts with the breath takes its cue from what’s happening in the body. If there are changes in the body around muscle tension, acid-based changes in the body, metabolic changes in the body, that information is feeding into the part of the brain that actually controls the breathing. You could do some breathing, and it might be like first aid and calm you down. But if you don’t do something to change the baseline functions of the body, your breath will just go back to being dysfunctional again. And so you’re just doing breathwork to just try to feel okay.

Ani
Right. I’m just imagining that part of the brain being like, okay, that’s nice. That was nice. Okay, now we’re anxious. Remember, that was where we were. So let’s get back there. Yeah, exactly. It also reminds me from a… What we just said about the breath being the handle of the mind, if we expand our thinking about what the mind is for just a second and not make it synonymous with the brain, but make it synonymous with information, then the breath being the handle, just like the handle on a door, for example, of the mind, when we use the breath, we can open the mind when we know that the mind is also the body, when there’s also so much information in the body, it can open up avenues in the body that when we use the body, we can actually create sustainable change.

Brian
Yeah, exactly. That’s the foundation of sustainable change for the mind. Yeah, totally. That’s 100 %. So when we think about, again, somatic practices specifically for anxiety or specifically for depression. First thing you want to say is just somatic practices in general have great research to help both anxiety and depression. If we just back up a little further, we just say, actually, just exercise. Just exercise. Like movement. Movement has- Wait, moving the body. Moving the body. Just exercising the body. Yeah, just getting some exercise alone has actually really great effect. I just have a little quote out of a study on Tai chi,qi gong for the treatment of prevention of mental disorders. Says, Systemic reviews have found that exercise results in significant reductions in depressive symptoms comparable with cognitive behavioral therapy. What they’re saying is exercise, just doing exercise, just getting out for a walk alone- Has been comparable. Will have comparable to results to cognitive behavioral therapy for depressive symptoms. That’s just exercise alone. We’re not even talking about adding in the mindfulness aspect. Sure. Two studies found that exercise is comparable to Zoloft in terms of efficacy for treatment of major depressive disorders. And Tai chi and QiGong interventions have been shown to be comparable effects at reducing anxiety.

Brian
And in general, evidence from clinical trials supports a positive association between physical activity and physical and psychological health. So just exercise alone is powerful medicine.

Ani
That’s the exact word I was going to use. I think that we think of food as medicine, for example, or we’re talking about free medicine. This stuff is expensive in our society, the cost of medicine and medical stuff, and it’s just out of control. And the idea that we can actually make our own medicine. We have a student on our team who studied as a chemist, a student on our team and a graduate of our somatic coach training program. She studied as a chemist, and she went to college because she had a bunch of chronic diseases as a kid. And she wanted to learn how to make better medicine without side effects. And she found that it’s impossible to do in a lab, but she finds that it’s possible to do it with the somatic practices. I just find that such an empowering and wonderful story because it’s available to all of us.

Brian
Yeah, absolutely. I love that. I love that story. And she’s fantastic, too. She’s wonderful. And so the idea is with somatic practices, we’re doing exercise. You’re moving your body, but mild to moderate. Not excessive exercise. A lot of times when people hear us exercise, they’re like, Oh, I got to go out for a run. Got to get my heart really pounding. No, we’re talking about mild to moderate, mild to moderate exercise.

Ani
It’s just like the American way, isn’t it? Exactly.

Brian
“It’s got to be hard. It’s got to be hard.” Mild to moderate. In coordination with the mild to moderate exercise or a movement that we’re doing with our bodies that are associated with somatic practices, we’re also breathing, which creates all kinds of amazing changes in the body as well. We actually did a past podcast on breathwork, and we talked a lot about breath physiology in there, so you might want to go back and check that out. Then we’re also bringing in a visual focus as well. We’re combining body movement, we’re combining conscious breathwork, and we’re combining that with a visual focus of some sort, and that creates a somatic practice. With somatic practices for anxiety, a lot of our direction is helping that energy get down in the body, helping the energy move downward in the body, because with anxiety, it tends to move upward. Just by moving, it’s interesting, there’s all this worry that goes on and people are like, I got to solve that problem. Got to solve that problem. And we do somatic practices with people, and we just help them get the energy out of their head.

Brian
It’s like the problem is not there anymore because the rumination has gone away. That’s really what the problem is.

Ani
Yeah. One of my favorite sayings to our clients and students is the problem is never the problem. So when we have anxiety and we remember that whatever it is that we’re fixated on, is it actually the problem? The problem is the elevated energy in our nervous system, and that we’re out of our window of tolerance, and we’re dysregulated. And then we look at that. Then we bring our nervous system back into balance and homeostasis. And a lot of times, the thing that we’re so hooked on, it isn’t even a problem anymore. It’s not, or it takes care of itself, or the resolution of it is obvious when we can regulate our nervous system. Exactly.

Brian
So with the anxiety, the goal is to get the energy down. So with depression, it’s number one, to bring more energy in because the tank is running low on the body metabolic energy when there’s depression. We want to bring some more energy in slowly. We don’t want to overload the system. We want to understand how to bring energy in slowly and then bring that energy not up into the head so much, but into the center of the body. We want to recharge the energy centers in the body, the key parts of the body that spill and help aqueduct energy into our limbs, into our eyes, in other places. We get a nice even distribution of it. We want to be able to do that very consciously so that we’re not overcharging the system. But the overall goal with depression is using somatic practice is to help to put the body on a trickle charge so it starts to hold more energy and then can substantiate itself, lift itself up a little bit higher.

Ani
Yeah, this is so much wisdom. You’re reminding me, actually, we did a podcast with some acupressure points. Yes. That was really helpful. If you’re listening and you want to go back and check that out, it’s something about acupressure.

Brian
Yeah, it was the five acupressure points for anxiety.

Ani
Oh, okay, great. There were some great tips on that. Yeah.

Brian
So these are the somatic practices that we teach in our course centering certification program. And we talk a lot about anxiety, a lot about depression, a lot about other issues that students may find themselves engaging with with clients. And so if…

Ani
Yeah. Well, we’re really excited about course centering right now, too, because we’re going to be at the Kripalu Center for Yoga and Health here in just a few weeks.

Brian
Yeah. First week in June.

Ani
Yeah. So I’m so excited about Kripalu. Kripalu is one of my favorite places in on the planet.

Brian
Yeah, it’s amazing. I love Kripalu, and it’s such a wonderful opportunity to practice with people in real life in person rather than just over the computer. Over the Zoom. Yeah. There’s so much… I think all the Zooming we’ve been doing for the last few years, we forgot what it’s like to be together. The last time we were together a couple of months ago with a group of our students in our certification retreat doing practice together. It was just… It’s so It’s amazing. It’s ineffable. The words just aren’t there to talk about the connection, the energy internally, the communal cultivation of these things. It’s really incredibly, incredibly powerful that you almost forget about because you’ve been on the computer the whole time. You’re like, oh, yeah. And then that becomes your normal. And you forget how powerful it is to be in person. And so this is going to be… We do course centering both virtually, but this in-person opportunity is just…

Ani
It’s amazing. The way the world’s turned for for us to be able to have choice around whether we do things virtually or in-person, I think has been amazing. The way that the world’s opened up to us during COVID, all of a sudden, we have access to things we would have never had access to and things like that, which is really exciting. And now we’re remembering how great it is to be in person. One of the things I’m most looking forward to at Kripalu, like you were saying, is just being in that energy with real people, again. And because Kripalu is a place where people come to reflect, to be centered, to learn, to grow, and really reflect on their own process as human beings, the energy there is outstanding. I’m really excited to be there. And if you’re looking for a place to relax and learn at the same time and to share an amazing energy with our community, which is just that our community is barn on just outstanding human beings. If you’re a coach, we can even get continuing education credits for coming and studying with us. It’s like such a win-win-win.

Ani
So definitely go to the Kripalu website. And it’s on our website as well. Under Events, you can check it out and go to Kripalu and check out the course if you’re looking for a place to go get a few days away.

Brian
Yeah. I was just talking with a student yesterday about re-kickstarting their practice. They’ve been out of it for a little bit. Life went another way. They want to be able to kickstart. So they’re going to join us there to get re-kickstarting It again with new tools and things they can bring into their practice, into their business.

Ani
Yeah, that’s such a great idea. It’s going to be really great. Yeah. Awesome. Brian, thank you for such a powerful conversation. And to make such complicated ideas that can really feel like they railroad an entire life. So simple and so practical. So glad we had this conversation about anxiety and depression today. Thanks, Ani. Yeah. Thanks. All right. See you next time.

Brian
Thank you for listening to this episode.

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