Transcript

Ani
Hi, and welcome to the Somatic Coaching Academy podcast. You are listening to episode one, two, three. Hey, Brian, good morning.

Brian
Hey, ABC. As easy as one, two, three.

Ani
Oh, it’s a special episode. You get to hear us sing. Exactly.

Brian
Well, cool. Yes, here we are. Episode 123. Yeah.

Ani
How are you doing today?

Brian
There’s got to be some type of numerology magic around that, right?

Ani
I’m sure somebody will let us know.

Brian
Okay, let us know, numerologists.

Ani
Yeah. Episode one, two, three. We’re excited today because the topic is one that to be able to actually talk a lot about the book, The Body Keeps the Score.

Brian
Yes. So this episode is going to be a little like a book review, but not totally like a book review like we’ve done in the past. And the reason In that, we’ve decided to look at this book, and really what we’re talking about is, where do we pick up where the body keeps the score left off? Especially when we talk about sensation-based motivation coaching and what we at the Smata Coaching Academy. But the reason why this book really rose to the surface is because when I travel and when I teach or when I have people come to public classes, people with me for the first time, the number one book-related question I get from people is always, Have you read The Body Keeps the Score? It’s a seminal work. I mean, it’s a best-selling book written in 2014 by Bessel van der Kolk, and it really was so timely when it hit.

Ani
It’s been out for how long now?

Brian
Well, since 2014.

Ani
Oh, really? Is that it?

Brian
Yeah, that’s right. It hasn’t been that long.

Ani
It’s actually not that long. I knew it was popular when I walked into my daughter’s college bookstore and it was in the very, very front table at the college bookstore. I was like, Wow, this has really gained- Yeah, it’s really-permendous mainstream popularity.

Brian
Mainstream popularity has been a game changer. I think that’s because, number one, it’s an amazing book. I mean, it’s It’s written really well, and I think it meets the times really well.

Ani
I agree. There’s some really timely thing about it that people are craving maybe more answers.

Brian
Yeah. Well, I think there’s- Something different. An incredible blend of science in there, which I think a lot of people in the Western contemporary world really, really appreciate. It also meets a gap of, let’s just say, healing gap for people. It also hits a time in the world where people, human beings, are reckoning with their trauma history, with our ancestral, political, situational trauma in a lot of ways. This book just met the time perfectly. I think that’s why it’s had broad acceptance, mainstream acceptance, and why Bessel Van der Kalk, you see him speaking, teaching- He’s everywhere now. A lot of places. To his credit, this is an amazing book. If you haven’t read the book, let’s just say it’s a great read. It’s a comprehensive read. Let me put it that way. It is readable. It’s pretty digestible. But if you’re new to the science and physiology and those types of things around trauma, take your time going through it because there are some concepts in there that take a little bit of digesting to happen because, again, it’s pretty comprehensive.

Ani
Yeah. For a lot of people, this is the first time they’re reading anything like this.

Brian
Yes, exactly.

Ani
Because it really does have mainstream appeal.

Brian
Yeah. The book really, again, looks at trauma physiology in a really important way. It looks at the science of trauma and the physiology trauma in a really important way. Bessel Venterkoff also explores some modalities in that, too, like EM MDR and yoga, qigong, breathwork, a traumatic memory integration work, parts work, community integration stuff. It looks at a lot of different modalities in the book as well, which I think is also why it’s had broad mainstream acceptance. Then really the overall theme of the book is coming at trauma from a body-mind lens, from a body-centered focus thing. And that’s really what he’s been advocating for, is that when it comes to healing, working with trauma, it’s a body experience, and top-down therapy has limitations. In his experience, he writes about his professional experiences in the book as well and looks at the research as that also. She’s a really big advocate of both bottom-up and top-down methodologies, which we talk a lot about here in our podcast.

Ani
Yeah. So I’ve heard some people criticize the book a little bit. It’s not as simple as the body keeps the score, but the integration of the two, the top down and the bottom up. And again, to the timeliness of this book, I think we know that something’s missing from the constant top down approach that we hear all over the place all the time. And so it does really fill this gap around the bottom up approaches.

Brian
Yeah. He really did make people or bring to the forefront the the reality, the physiology, the science of having your system be hijacked, let’s just put it that way, right? That when you experience… And by the way, this happens in trauma for sure, and that’s Bessel-Vendor-Kolk’s lens. But it also happens in all humans. The same process happens in all humans. It just happens to show up more definitive and more explicitly in people experience trauma, around the idea of your amygdala, parts of your limbic system hijacking your cognitive or rational brain because of a response to some type of activator or what you could call trigger or something in the environment that reactivates old patterns thing. What he really brings to the forefront is the really importance of learning how to navigate your internal sensory world, your interoceptive world, so that you don’t get hijacked or that if you do get hijacked by your limbic system, you have a way back. You have a way back to find stability and groundedness, self-advocacy, self-efficiency, so that you can really respond in healthy, functional ways to things that are happening in the world.

Ani
The body has to do those things. Exactly. That’s the thing. That’s the piece that’s missing with these top-down approaches is we really do need a body approach.

Brian
I have jotted down because I’ve read the book a couple of times, more than a couple of times. I’ve read it a few times. If I had my version of it here, addition of it, it’d be a highlight it in there. There’s sticky notes and all that stuff on it. But I’ve got some key takeaways from the book. Let’s just go over some key takeaways, and then let’s talk about the segue of where sensation-based motivation coaching picks up, where the body keeps the score left off.

Ani
Yeah, because it really is an evolution of evolutionary process thing. Yeah, it really is. The body keeps the score open to a new conversation for people that can be taken even farther.

Brian
Yeah, in a really powerful conversation. So one of the key takeaways is that trauma organizes the nervous system towards protection. When we experience a trauma, your whole nervous system basically gets reorganized, prioritized towards self-protection. That can show up in forms of hyper arousal in your nervous system, which we’ve talked about a lot in the podcast, shutdown, which you’ve talked a lot about in the podcast, and also dissociation, which you’ve talked about on the podcast. When we experience trauma, your nervous system reorganizes itself to really prioritize protecting itself to a greater degree than if you hadn’t experienced some type of traumatic experience. That’s one key takeaway that he really brought to the forefront. That is more common knowledge now than it used to be, but let’s just tick these boxes so that we’re all on the same page with it.

Ani
Yeah, I think it’s common knowledge, but it’s not common practice. People don’t know how to practice it so much, but it’s more of a common knowledge thing. Yeah.

Brian
Another key takeaway is that he actually has a whole chapter, a section of a chapter on traumatic memory, which I found really fascinating. He talks about traumatic memory really coming up or coming through as sensations, images, impulses, and emotional flooding rather than coherent current narratives. So a integrated memory is one that you have a linear story around. It has a beginning, a middle, and an end. And traumatic memory doesn’t show up that way. It shows up really fragmented. But what I thought was really interesting, how he describes it as coming back as sensations, as images, as impulses, as emotional floods. And a lot of the work we do, sensation-based motivation coaching, really meets those parameters in a really, really powerful way. Yeah. That’s another one of the key takeaways. Another one is that the central problem around trauma is it always or most often includes some type of loss of self-regulation and choice. Right. And by the way, not lack of insight. So that’s the big difference, right? The problem is the problem with self-regulation and choice of that being able to self-regulate, not insight. So oftentimes when people experience trauma, If they have insight around what’s going on.

Brian
That’s not necessarily the problem. The problem is that the body takes over and causes that massive sense of dysregulation. And that’s why the body keeps the score, right?

Ani
Which actually influences insight.

Brian
Exactly. Right. So that’s a critical point I want to make here. People are experiencing trauma. They’re not lacking insight. They’re lacking or having difficulty with self-regulation because they’ve lost choice. And so their body takes over them, again, because it’s trying to protect them. Protect itself, yeah. Yeah, because it goes right back to that first key takeaway. There’s so many great points in the book. I’m just, again, just touching on these because I think they just give us a good idea about the heart, the heart of the book itself. Another takeaway is that many coping strategies that people do are what they really are, attempts to self-regulate.

Ani
Absolutely.

Brian
As They may seem dysfunctional on the surface. We’re talking about coping strategies around eating.

Ani
Eating, watching TV.

Brian
Eating videos. Yeah. Or even emotional coping strategies, even anger or shutting down or whatever it is. Really what those are are attempts for the nervous system to regulate itself. Yeah.

Ani
And there’s so much self judgment that people have around what they’re doing, and especially when they’re trying to meet goals and they want to look like they’re high performers or do it right or whatever. Oh, my goodness. That gets in the way of being able to understand what it really is.

Brian
Yeah, exactly. Another just key point is that things like dissociation can look fine on the outside, but can really be debilitating on the inside, feeling numb and blank and shut down thing. There’s this big discrepancy crepency between a person’s inner experience and what it looks like is happening on the outside of them. It’s really almost like a silent problem that’s not recognized externally.

Ani
We see that when we deconstruct people’s patterns all the time.

Brian
Yeah, it shows up like that. Actually, it reminds me a little bit when I worked at Craig Hospital years ago with people with traumatic brain injuries and people who had considered mild to traumatic brain injuries, even though no brain mild, but they’re mild compared to other more severe ones. So oftentimes, those mild TBIs, traumatic brain injuries, people wouldn’t have physical challenges. So outwardly, people looked like they were doing great. But internally, they had lots of problems with memory and cognitive processing and fatigue. I had a TBI when I was working at Craig in a car accident, and it was really interesting to me. I had trouble coming back to work for for about three months. And even I’d come back to work and my caseload was still there. And so even my colleagues who were working with people with traumatic brain injuries had a hard time understanding why I was actually struggling with carrying my caseload. You looked fine. But for me, it was a wake up call around, wow, now I really understand what my patients are actually experiencing around fatigue, memory loss, headaches, all those kinds of things. It’s got to be so challenging.

Brian
Yeah. So trauma can oftentimes show up just like that, especially around dissociation.

Ani
Right. Yeah.

Brian
So another point he makes in the book, which is really interesting, is that healing requires restoring the capacity to feel without being overwhelmed. And he makes this point pretty clearly. When we talk about how do we heal from trauma, we have to restore the capacity to feel, like coming back again to sensations, how important sensations are as signals for self-regulation. As signals for what a person needs to, even in the terms of food or going to the bathroom or do I need sleep. Lots of times with more significant trauma, those sensory cues aren’t recognized and so people have a hard time self-regulating with things that we would take for granted as being common anytime else. But the idea is it’s the capacity to feel without being overwhelmed or shutting down by those feelings. We talk a lot a lot about expanding our window of sensation to be able to be present in the world without feeling flooded by the world. That’s a big key part of it. What I thought was also interesting is that he made it pretty clear in the book that when he looks at approaches that he deems effective, whether it be…

Brian
Again, he looked at EMDR and Qigong and some of those practices. And so for them to be effective, he has a little of what needs to be included in order to have an effective process in terms of doing all the things we just lined out right there, restoring the capacity to feel without being overwhelmed. Here’s the list. The one thing is that there must be a… To be able to create felt safety. Does the program, does the modality, does the situation that you’re working in, does it create safety? Does it feel safe? Not just cognitively reassuring, but does it feel safe in your body? That’s really critically important in order to be effective with any of those modalities. Another one is, does the modality help someone build self-regulation skills? Is that a core part of it? And so both from bottom up and then also from top down, but starting from bottom up, we have to be able to build those skills in the body, right? What else we have? To help integrate traumatic memory so that we’re focusing on the present moment and we’re able to integrate what happened in the past, but at the level of the body.

Brian
In some way, helping the time-keeping apparatus in the body come back into a situation where it can put things in a linear, understood progression, a coherent narrative, rather than these fragmented sensations, images, sensations sensory flooding, and those kinds of things. That’s a really key part of the programs that he’s advocating for. What else does he say? To restore agency, to resource self-agency, which means that I can choose, I can act, I can notice. So moving more into that creator role and getting out of a role where you’re subject to things going on around you, where you step more into the role of self-agency and self-empowered roles. Does the program actually promote that? That’s a really important point. And then the other part was a rebuilding connection, rebuilding connection with self, but also with others. So can you rebuild healthy, trustworthy connection with other people. Those are the tick marks of him suggesting saying, if you’re working with in through a program that helps to feel traumatic or even traumatized nervous systems, which most people experience some type of traumatized nervous system level, whether, if not frequently, then often, and if not often, then occasionally. But most people are experiencing some sense of dysregulation on a regular basis that you need to be ticking those boxes, right?

Brian
And that the through line of all of this is that bottom-up, bottom-up change supports top-down meaning.

Ani
Right, exactly. Exactly. Hey, we do all of that here. Yeah.

Brian
Well, then that’s why I thought it was important that we list those points out. So as we talk about the bridge between where the body keeps the score left off and where sensation-based motivation coaching picks up, I wanted to make sure we opened up that conversation, that bridge of what are actually the qualities that Bessel Vandercolk is promoting of a modality or programs. I wanted to just bring that to the forefront.

Ani
Yeah, because there are different kinds of modalities that serve different people in different ways. I think the one thing that really struck me was this idea that is so core to what we do here about how important it is to change the internal state, to be able to change the insights that you’re receiving. Not everybody who’s looking for support in, I guess we could say healing, is specifically looking to have insights so that they can do new different things in their lives. And some people are looking for healing for healing’s sake. And so certain modalities would be good for that. One of the things that we really look at and we like coaching so much, is because coaches help people to reach into a higher potential. So that’s a part of… I’m trying to remember exactly what we tell students, but something like Now what? That’s what it is. So you can do different kinds of healing modalities. And the question I ask the students way at the beginning of the Level 3 certification program we deal with our clients all the time is, but now what? Because you could go do a healing session, but not all practitioners will say, Now, what do you want to do with that?

Ani
Correct. You just need to know as a person who’s seeking out different modalities, that will help you choose what modality you want. Do you want somebody who’s saying, now what do you want to do with that?

Brian
Exactly. Yeah. And that’s that segue, the bridge into the coaching stuff, right? Yeah. So really, as we make that bridge where sensation-based motivation coaching picks up from where the body keeps the score left off, right? The body keeps the score is basically saying a trauma lives in the body. And Body Keeps the Score does a great job of promoting a clinical understanding of that. And what we do here is turn that clinical understanding into a repeatable, coachable method for day-to-day living, for day-to-day change. So that’s really what we’re doing here. We’re taking all that information and we’re turning it into a repeatable, predictable coaching method.

Ani
We actually take it out of the clinical realm, too.

Brian
Exactly, yeah. It’s really for day-to-day living. Yeah. And achievement and performance, which is, I guess, considered day-to-day because whatever you’re doing every day, right?

Ani
It’s out of the clinic. I mean, you have some psychologists who work in high performance, sure, but their clients aren’t going into the clinic to do that work. I mean, it’s a different door you walk through.

Brian
Yeah, we’re working out in the world, right? We’re working out in the world in a different way. It reminds me, again, I’m coming back to these whole ideas that when I worked at Craig Hospital, again, is people needed to be in the hospital for a certain amount of time, but But then eventually, I was on the outpatient team, and we did a lot of community reintegration with people. So we were helping take people- The bridging. Reintegrate, bridging back into their lives at work, at the gym, in the grocery store, those sorts of things.

Ani
If we say of some of the work, we don’t do this stuff necessarily, but some of our graduates or our certification program do because we have people doing recertification. Did I say that Helping people who have been incarcerated, get back into civilization, get back into communities. There’s that similar idea. Yes, exactly. But even people who are changing careers or changing jobs or going from college into the workforce or military who are coming back into job situations. We have students who are doing all kinds of things. I think the blanket term I would use for any of that is transition.

Brian
Yes. Wow. That’s a great word.

Ani
Right. People who are in transition. Yeah. Because there really needs to… I mean, we’ve worked in the clinical and coaching industry for so long to see so many different examples. When people are in transition, so oftentimes they need a hand to hold. They need people who can help them to navigate transition. But a lot of times what we look for is we look for somebody who has done the transition we’re looking for, not an expert in transition. But that’s what SVMC really is, is to help somebody become their own expert in transition, but we help them through it because we’re experts in transition.

Brian
Yeah, I love that. Yeah, that’s a really great framing, really important framing. And again, because we take the information that’s described in the book, and you think about the book. I think what the book is mapping the territory of trauma and physiology. Really, what we’re doing is we’re creating a procedure because SBMC, sensation-based motivating coaching, is a process. It’s a procedure to basically take that map and turn it into a process, bring it to real life.

Ani
One of the things I’m really appreciating about this book and just other books in general that are written by people who have done the research and stuff and are really in there looking at all the research. It’s such powerful work. I think sometimes we expect somebody to be both the researcher and the clinician. Sometimes that happens. But I’m just thinking back to a number of different experts that I can think of who’ve really done the research to substantiate the work that then clinicians, coaches, all those people, the people who are really in there with the clients, creating modalities for helping and how those two things really go together. I think sometimes we can think that, Well, the one person has to do it all. The researcher has to have the methods, and the methods people have to have all the research. I think it’s really cool that we have different professionals who are really good at different things, and then we can tag team in, like the model that we used to use in the clinical setting. You were talking about the community integration. That was done with a team.

Brian
Yeah, it was a whole team of us.

Ani
It was a team approach. Yeah.

Brian
I think that’s, again, the way we look at synthesizing information is because we take the method we’ve created, sensation-based motivation coaching, is a synthesis of a lot of research, a synthesis of a lot of experience on both our parts of working in the clinical and working in coaching programs and working with one-on-one coaching and those kinds of things, and taking all the research and all the learning and synthesizing it- Number of different modalities. Number of different modalities and synthesizing it, again, into this repeatable coaching method. And when we link it back to, again, to the book, one of the hallmark parts of the book is to be able to, again, experience sensation in your body without being overwhelmed by it, without being flooded by it, and expanding your capacity to be with your inner world. So there’s a word, we talked about it a lot. It’s called enteroception. Enteroception is the word that talks about inner sensory experience. That’s just the $5 word or whatever that we can keep talking about. Really what we’re doing here at this Matacochee Academy is we’re helping people to become more masterful with their enteroception. They can learn to identify the specific sensations that are associated and precede things like avoidance, procrastination, people-pleasing, shutdown, hypervigilance, hyper-urgency, because those are the things that get in the way of people creating change in their lives.

Brian
When people are going through a process of change, a process of transition, I love that, and they have things that they want to create, things that they want to do. Resistance comes up, it gets in the way. That resistance is going to come up on different levels of intensity for different people for different reasons. But this is how the The nervous system is wired. This is how it’s wired for everybody. What we’re really doing is helping people identify ahead of time the very subtle micro cues, the micro sensations associated with the exact patterns of resistance that are going to shut them down if they let those sensations continue to continue to grow and evolve thing. That’s one thing we’re really helping people do is part of the process is helping them become so good at identifying exactly what’s going on internally that then they can have choice and change what they’re doing rather than feeling overwhelmed by their inner experience.

Ani
I think really practically, it comes down to making better decisions. And when I say better, I mean from a higher purpose with more inner peace and more ability to collaborate and things like that. These kinds of methods help somebody to be a really powerful, empowered, creative, co-collaborative decision maker.

Brian
Yeah, 100%.

Ani
I appreciate the book so much because we’ve had students come in who don’t know a whole lot about all the things that the body keeps the score talks about. And they’d say, Boy, these methods are amazing. And we give them science behind it. But to really have that detailed bit can give some students real leg up to really understand what’s going on so that they can really even better themselves with the processes, help more people, be more articulate about what’s going on. So the book really does complement the work that we do here and give people such tremendous language. It’s so easy to have this book that’s on the front table at Barnes & Noble because it’s so unassuming to go recommend it to somebody. Go get that book. If you got to dig through the back corners of the dusty shelf on Barnes & Noble, I think it has a different feeling to it. Yeah, totally. If you walk in the bookstore and it’s right there. Oh, everybody’s reading it. It’s easier to pick up.

Brian
Yeah. The fact is that life doesn’t stop happening. I mean, life just keeps coming for people. No matter what has happened with someone’s nervous system, no matter what someone’s nervous system is in this moment, the world just keeps evolving. The world can evolve in ways that are just threatening for us in so many ways. Just because change by itself can be threatening. In some ways, if we look around you, the world is always evolving. If you look in nature, nature is always growing. That’s just a facet of nature. It’s always growing. If nature is always growing, if the world is always evolving and growing, and we’re a part of nature, we’re a part the world, there’s always an impetus for us to grow as well. Growth isn’t always comfortable for people. I think that’s, again, that’s not necessarily said in the book, but that’s the bridge into the work that we do with people. Because really what we’re doing, again, when we’re working with the sensation base, with the interoceptive base, one of the primary goals is help to train someone’s nervous system to be able to embrace those sensations of growth. Growth, because those sensations of growth aren’t always comfortable.

Brian
We can get signals then, or bad, and we get signals that we shouldn’t be growing, we shouldn’t be changing. But then the problem is that the world continues to evolve, and if we don’t keep evolving also, then we end up being worse off in the end. Yeah.

Ani
Well, that’s part of the thing about trauma is you learn you can’t trust your own signals. Yeah.

Brian
So we got to start putting those things back together, which is why it’s so important to tick all those boxes. So again, the bridge, and just to maybe circle back to something you said a little bit earlier, Ani, because we’re working more in this coaching realm. We’re asking people, how do we move from dysregulation in a nervous system? And this is whether or not someone has been diagnosed with severe trauma or not. Oftentimes not. Oftentimes not. And so, again, what we do here at the Somatic Coaching Academy is not necessarily working with people who’ve been diagnosed with significant trauma. Working with all human beings, all human nervous systems, because they all work the same way. The thing I really like about studying trauma is because it gives you a window into exactly how the nervous system works and how it compensates for really serious events that happen in people’s lives. We can learn so much from that. Then we can take that information and help everyone, wherever they are in their healing and learning journey, everybody can benefit from understanding how the nervous system works. There’s so many courageous people doing this work in the world right now.

Ani
I’m just really hung up on the fact that there are certain populations who just have had a lot of stuff happen. Absolutely. It’s true that we help everybody here. It’s not just that we’re working with people who have trauma because it’s not. Also, we just see, especially certain populations, populations have a significant amount of things that have happened to them. For example, women, it’s something, let’s statistic, something like three out of four women have been through some harassment or aggressive event. Certain populations have been through a lot. And people are walking around trying to live everyday lives, having everyday goals that they would like to meet, and they just can’t figure out why they can’t do it. That’s what SMC does, and that’s what SBMC does. That’s what we’re trying to talk about here. I think it just normalizes the fact that certain people have been through a lot.

Brian
Yeah, most certainly. Again, the trajectory where we’re moving here is that we take the idea of the nervous system being first, if it’s dysregulated, we help increase its capacity to be regulated. That’s the very first step. Move from dysregulation to regulation. Move from dysregulation to regulation, move from dysrace to capacity to be regulated.

Ani
Then you work with that.

Brian
Then you work with that. Then you go from capacity to creating aligned action, much to your point. It’s like we don’t stop at capacity We keep going forward and say, now, what do you want to do with that capacity? What do you want to build with that? What life do you want to create? How do you want to be in the world?

Ani
To be explicit with it is a big, large reason why you and I left left therapeutic-based practice. Because our experience of our work in therapeutic-based practice, to the most part, left people at, Okay, we did the processes. See you next week. It felt to me like something was missing. I remember being on the other side of the table with a somatic therapist one time who was awesome, by the way. And at the end of the session, it was like, Okay, we’re done. And she didn’t ask me, You want to take this forward in your life? And what do you want to do now? And those are coaching questions. So of course, she wouldn’t. But I left the call and had to do that myself because I felt unfulfilled in that. And that’s one of the reasons why you and I have moved into this space. It feels really complete to do work where you think about and are asked where you want to go next, how you want to make that practical, how you want to take it into your life. I just think it feels really super fulfilling on both sides of the table.

Brian
On both sides of the table. And we’ve actually designed our whole certification track to follow that process. Our level one somatic practice essential certification is all about helping people and helping yourself to regulate your nervous system. Step one. Basically, move from dysregulation to capacity. That’s the first step, right? That’s what we do with level one. Level two is about helping you to grow and enhance your inner capacity. This is where you’re basically training your nervous system, again, to embrace the sensations of growth, to be able to consciously change your interoceptive experience. Internal experience. Your internal experience so that you have now the agency and the choice to choose the sensations that are going to become the foundation of the third step, which is your aligned action. What do you want to do with that? That’s what you do in level three. In level three, we go even a little further and we help you build on the inner capacity that you developed in level two and teach you how to coach yourself and coach other people to be able to take action that’s aligned upon a robust inner capacity and an ability to regulate your own nervous system.

Brian
You have to have all three of those steps baked in. That’s exactly how we devised and developed and designed the certification track because that’s what you need to be able to do to help and support yourself and support other people as well. Right.

Ani
And that’s the foundation that we use in our group programs and our private client programs here at Smeta Coaching Academy as well.

Brian
One, two, three. Yeah. So that’s one, two, three. Here we are again. You came back. You came all the way back to it, to our episode one, two, three. That’s great. So that’s the progression. That’s the bridge from this amazing book into the work we do with sensation-based motivation coaching. If you have questions, thoughts, insights about the episode, please reach out and let us know. Leave us a review.

Ani
We’d love to hear. It’s as easy as one, two, three. Cool.

Brian
And we’ll see you again next week. Bye-bye.