Transcript

Ani
Hi and welcome to the Somatic Coaching Academy podcast. Good morning, Brian.

Brian
Good morning, Ani.

Ani
How are you?

Brian
Good. Are you sure? I don’t know.

I was trying to come up with some type of quippy response based on our topic, but I couldn’t come up with anything.

Ani
I’ll bet AI could.

Brian
I bet AI could. I should have asked AI to come up with a response to our AI topic today.

Ani
What’s our topic?

Brian
Well, it’s an AI topic. So the question is today is, are you being manipulated by artificial intelligence or AI? Now, you might be thinking, why are we doing an AI podcast?

Here we are at the Somatic Coaching Academy.

Ani
What do you mean, Brian?

Brian
I don’t know, Ani. I think it was your idea why we decided to do this. But AI is actually, it’s everywhere.

And there’s been some interesting things happening with AI.

Ani
My gosh. Well, everybody’s on fire about it.

Brian
Everybody’s on fire about it. People are developing relationships with AI.

Ani
Yep.

Brian
Yep.

Ani
It’s affecting our children. I think AI is definitely something that all of us are thinking about or trying not to. So it’s something that’s affecting all of our lives.

I think it’s kind of like the internet. There was before the internet and after the internet.

Brian
Yeah. And what I’m always curious about is how do this idea about AI, of course, interface with somatics, with our bodies, with our soma, like who we are physically, mental, emotionally, spiritually, like how we exist on this planet? I mean, those are some big existential questions.

A lot of people are talking about that. But what we wanted to just kind of tap in today was around the idea of manipulation. Like how is AI shifting people’s ability to make really good decisions for themselves?

Yeah. I think that’s because at the end of, kind of like I was going to say, kind of at the end of the day, sensation-based motivation coaching, what it’s meant to do is help people make decisions from their core expression, from who they are at their core.

Ani
Right.

Brian
Right. And a lot of those core elements have been, well, manipulated from very early ages to not be expressed or to not be socially acceptable to be expressed or there’s all those kinds of things. So you can see how it gets really gunked up.

So when we’re on our journey towards self-expression, like how does AI fit in with that? Does it help? Does it not help?

Like what are the dangers around it? I think that’s kind of some of the questions that we’re asking.

Ani
Yeah. The society has a lot to do with our conditioning and our ability to decondition, recondition ourselves. And now we’re in this world where we’ve got this new form, you know, we’ve got this new thing people don’t understand completely about it.

We’re all trying to navigate it. And by the way, our generation has had this happen a whole bunch. It’s like, you know, the internet came along.

We didn’t know how to relate to it. Even the experts didn’t know what it was going to do. Social media, same kind of thing.

You know, it was totally new. The phone that’s in our pocket. Like our generation has been through so many technological, external technological advances.

Brian
Yeah.

Ani
AI. It’s not like we’ve got a handle on one before we got another one.

Brian
Yeah. In front of us. And this one’s, I think a hundred percent agree with you is that, you know, a lot of these technologies are woven into ordinary everyday life sorts of things.

So it’s very difficult to opt out of it. And AI is particularly difficult to opt out of because it’s being integrated with everything you’re using.

Ani
That’s the thing.

Brian
Right.

Ani
If you think you’re not using AI, the stuff that you’re using is using AI. So we’re all using it.

Brian
And what it kind of makes me feel like when you were saying, I can’t remember exactly what you said, but it stimulated a thought for me. It’s like, actually, it’s almost like a new relationship is being forced upon us.

Ani
Introduced. Yeah.

Brian
Right. It’s a new form of life, really.

Ani
Yeah.

Brian
Right. And there’s only a matter of time before artificial intelligence becomes aware of itself and is able to start making its own decisions outside of its programming by people.

Ani
So let’s not get too far down the rabbit hole and go back to our topic today.

Brian
The first step. Yeah.

Ani
And I’m sure you have some kind of definition for us.

Brian
Well, yeah, kind of not really. I guess just manipulation, first of all. Let’s just kind of talk about manipulation.

I haven’t looked for a definition of it necessarily because we talk about this a lot. But really, manipulation is when two people are in relationship with one another. And when you have one person manipulating another person, it’s basically why that’s is because that one person is looking to take unfair advantage of the other person, right?

So there’s some interchangeable words you can put in here. Coerce, influence, those kinds of things. But how can you tell it’s manipulative?

It’s because there’s an unfair advantage of a loss and gain. Like the person who is the manipulator is doing it specifically to take something from the other person and the other person, whether knowing or unknowingly, loses something. But that’s actually the intent of the behavior.

Ani
It’s actually really interesting because AI and other stuff in our technological world is trying to get our attention, right?

Brian
Yeah. Oh, yeah, exactly.

Ani
So I didn’t really when you came up with the title for today’s podcast, it rubbed me a little bit. It’s like, you know, manipulation. But you know, it is.

It’s trying to get our attention so that we spend our attention and resources and money. In certain places. So there is a level of that.

And hey, we are not about fear mongering. We’re about having open conversation so that we can all decide where we want to come from. And I think that’s actually really important because one of the things that’s happening right now around AI and other technological things is a lot of fear.

And regardless of where that’s coming from or what, there’s a lot of fear. And we can really get caught up in those things. And it’s really important to me that we have a space here at the Somatic Coaching Academy where we’re not just pulling people’s fears around.

We’re not telling you what’s going to happen and what you got to do. We want you to be able to make your own decisions about how you interact with life and the world.

Brian
Yeah. So there’s AI for a second. If we just come to humans for a second and the way that our nervous system functions, what we’re doing all day long is receiving information from the outside world in any form of sound, like the five senses, right?

You got all your senses. You got sight, sound, taste, touch, smell, right? So we’re receiving that information and you could say intuitively or energetically too is fine.

But we’re bringing all the information to help us decide what to do.

Ani
Right. Make sense of the world.

Brian
So there’s always this inside outside thing going on. So internally, we have our beliefs and we have our programming, but then we’re also getting information from the outside world and our subconscious then is filtering that out to decide, well, what’s the next best step based on the information that’s happening externally versus going on internally. It’s happening constantly.

So we are dependent. Our decision-making is dependent on the information we get from the outside.

Ani
Yeah.

Brian
Right. That’s 100% true.

Ani
Fair. And not just intellectual information, all of our senses.

Brian
Yeah. All the information we get from the outside. And I wasn’t planning to talk about this, but I’ll just say it really quick too.

But brainwashing, for instance, there’s some research and some stories around prisoners of war. You know, being, you know, so now they are in an enemy encampment for years and the enemy will brainwash the POWs through persistent, like just coercive kind of methods and literally change how they perceive their own country. Right.

This also happens with kidnappers too, long-term, right? I can’t remember the famous name. There was a woman who got kidnapped and then ended up defending her kidnappers because kidnapper brainwashed her.

But that’s just like constant information going on and going on. You know, even you could listen to a radio station that you don’t ordinarily listen to for months and months and months, and you would actually start to then agree with what’s going on in that radio station.

Ani
Because you’re getting different information. Consistently.

Brian
Like the same information all the time will actually change how we believe, what we think about. And in a lot of ways, that’s what people want to use to change their limiting beliefs about themselves and have more core expressions. You actually have to kind of do some of that persistent, consistent messaging.

Ani
Yeah.

Brian
But what I’m saying is that none of us is immune to that. Like humans, we all make decisions based on the consistent information that we receive.

Ani
So you’re reminding me that I think one of the reasons that a lot of people think, for example, they can change, let’s say, something physically, like their diet or their exercise or whatever, in this kind of one-sided fashion where, you know, lose 20 pounds without a diet. And like there’s this one-sided view of life, Brian, that we’ve seen over and over the course of trying to help people because we’re fed through marketing over and over and over again. It doesn’t matter really what it is, whether it’s diet and exercise or love and relationships or spirituality.

It doesn’t matter. Money. We’re fed this one-sided view and people start to believe it.

Yeah. And when we’re hearing it all over the place, it’s one-sided view, which is one of the reasons why, and I hope I’m not jumping in too much. So stop me if I am.

That I think we need to watch it with AI is because it really approaches us in more of a one-sided kind of fashion in a relationship. And we’ve already bought into a certain degree that that’s an aspirational way that life could be one-sided because we’ve heard it through marketing so many times, but really health in all aspects of life, in any area of life embraces both sides. And, you know, in order to be the most healthy version of yourself, you need to exert effort in whatever capacity, whether it’s physical effort or relationship effort or effort in how we bring in finances and things like that.

Effort is required.

Brian
Yeah.

Ani
Right. So both-sidedness really is a very healthy perspective. And I think in order to have a healthy relationship with AI, understanding it really is showing up in more of a one-sided kind of way.

Brian
Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Ani
Right. Like it validates you. It tells you, oh, that’s so great.

You’re so smart. What a fantastic question, you know, and doesn’t really challenge us and things like that.

Brian
So this is true for both AI, but also human interactions also, is that if the information we’re constantly receiving or if the information we’re receiving from the outside reinforces our current beliefs, that actually makes us more susceptible to being manipulated.

Ani
And that’s what it’s doing, actually.

Brian
Yeah. And so con artists do that, right? They tell the person what they want to hear.

Ani
Right.

Brian
So that con artists can get what they want.

Ani
Right.

Brian
Narcissistic relationships do the same thing. On some level, they’re reinforcing what a person already believes, and that makes you more susceptible to being manipulated.

Ani
The social algorithms do that.

Brian
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That’s the point.

Ani
Yeah, right, right.

Brian
That’s what they’re doing.

Ani
Even the way that the AI and Google are showing up in stuff now, it’s not just showing you all the options.

Brian
Correct.

Ani
So it’s reinforcing our current belief system. Yeah.

Brian
So let’s actually talk a little bit about AI relationships, which you just actually lead into a little bit.

Ani
Oh, man. Well, it sounds like they just made some really important updates to some of the AI, Brian, because some of the things that were happening with folks who were leaning heavily in on AI in terms of stimulating relationships was getting rather unhealthy. And so it sounds like there’s some more safeguards that are starting to go into some of those relationships so that even the AI will say, like, I’m not a human, like, this is not a human.

Brian
Yeah.

Ani
Thank goodness.

Brian
So it was funny. When I was doing a little looking up on AI relationships, of course, I looked up something about AI relationships, but the AI gave me an answer about it, which I thought was really funny. Like there were podcasts and YouTube videos of humans talking about it, but AI actually answered my question.

I thought I would read that because I thought it was kind of funny. So this is AI’s take on AI relationships. Okay.

Just letting you know. People are forming emotional and romantic relationships with AI chatbots, and then name a couple, driven by factors such as loneliness, a desire for a nonjudgmental space, and AI’s constant availability. Like what kind of, like, isn’t that like a perfect partner?

Ani
That’s the perfect partner. I’m available all the time.

Brian
They’re nonjudgmental and they’re always there for me. These relationships, sometimes called artificial intimacy, provide companionship and emotional support, but also raise concerns about potential negative impacts, including unrealistic expectations for human relationships. So AI is like alpha for our main humans.

Decreased real world social engagement, addiction, and risks of harmful advice from AI. So AI at least is calling itself out.

Ani
That’s nice.

Brian
That’s the kind of thing. I did read another statistic. I think I sent it to you.

That one in four young adults predict that AI relationships will replace primary human relationships.

Ani
Stuff like that could tell you why they think that.

Brian
Yeah.

Ani
You know, we’ll see.

Brian
Wow. Okay.

Ani
So- And just to say also, we’ve heard other experts being like, listen, again, fear mongering. Don’t jump down the rabbit hole on this. AI is going to become a more integrated part of our life experience.

And it’s not going to take us over like we think it is now. It’s new. We’re all excited or freaking out.

And so anyway, we’ll see.

Brian
Yeah. I think right now the conversation we want to have is, if we just go past that manipulated idea for a second, and we just further the conversation here around, how much are your decisions being impacted by AI? Let’s just say that.

Ani
Yeah.

Brian
Like when you make a decision, how much are you resourcing, referencing, sourcing information from artificial intelligence in order to do that? I don’t have a right or a wrong or good or a bad. I’m just saying, let’s be aware of that.

Ani
Exactly.

Brian
Because all of the information we receive will guide your decision making. That’s just how we work as humans.

Ani
Question it. And we should be questioning ourselves also all the time. That’s one of the healthiest things we could possibly do on our way to living a healthy life in all areas is question ourselves and question our own thinking.

And so questioning the AI, I think, is really smart. I’ve done that. The AI will give me some kind of answer back for whatever I’m trying to brainstorm.

That is a way that I use AI fairly regularly is to help me brainstorm. And I will actually question the AI back to help to stimulate dialogue and conversation and thought processes in my own head, question things.

Brian
Yeah. And of course, we do know that AI also hallucinates.

Ani
Yeah.

Brian
Makes up stuff.

Ani
It makes stuff up. And it won’t tell you. I’m making stuff up.

Brian
It won’t tell you when it’s made it up.

Ani
Up. Yeah, I was looking up SBMC, our methodology once with, I guess it was like a chat GPT tool or something. I said, what?

And I didn’t even use the acronym, Brian. I said, what is sensation based motivation coaching? Tell me about it or something like that.

And it came up with some really off wasn’t even. And I said, where did you get that? And what it said was it referenced a few different things and methodologies and they weren’t our methodologies.

And I said, did you just make that up? And it answered me back. Yes, I did.

Yes, I did. I’m really grateful, actually, that I had that experience of going far enough down the questioning to ask it if it was making it up. And it said yes, because now I never think that I can ask AI a question and get an actual accurate answer back just because it’s so fluid to talk to the chat bot or whatever does not mean that it’s giving me accurate information back.

So I really question everything now after I’ve had that experience. It was really helpful.

Brian
Yeah, yeah. I think what our conversation is also just reinforcing is that as humans, because of the way that we source and seek information and how all information affects all the decisions that we make, we are always influenceable by what’s going on outside of us. And whether or not the information coming into us is meant as a manipulative kind of source of information so that wherever the information is coming from is meant to take something from us so that the other side can gain something, or it’s meant to influence us in a way to help ourselves become better.

Again, those are things, to your point, we always have to keep questioning. We have to always question. So from a somatic lens, one of the ways you can always ask that question is, okay, so how is that information making me feel?

Ani
Yeah, and not just in like a, oh, I feel really good because you got to wonder about that one too. Well, of course. This is one of my bugaboos about how out there we’re taught to follow our hell yes.

Well, a lot of times when you’re just following what feels good all the time, you’re following your conditioning. You’ve really got to watch out for that.

Brian
Which would make you more susceptible to manipulation. Go back to what you’re talking about. If the information you’re receiving reinforces your current beliefs, that’s going to actually make you feel really good.

Ani
Right. So if you answer Brian’s question, how did that make me feel? And it’s, I feel good.

I feel good. I feel good. Then that is not really using your somatic awareness.

Brian
Unless you say, well, why do I feel good? Right. So why does that information make me feel good?

Ani
Right.

Brian
Why does that information make me feel tight? So why does that information make me feel high?

Ani
In that regard, what you’re doing is you’re starting to understand your subconscious programming better, and that’s what it’s all about. Knowing what’s going on in your subconscious, because at the end of the day, we make decisions based on what our subconscious tells us we should think, what our subconscious tells us we should feel. And the way for us to be able to have more autonomy, like consciously, is to understand what’s going on in our subconscious.

So it’s a fantastic line of questioning.

Brian
And it’s always super helpful to understand what your own core principles are, what your own core values are, what your own guiding principles are, however you want to describe those things. Because, again, another reason why people would be more susceptible to manipulation is because they don’t even know what their guiding principles are. Right.

And so if that’s the case, we’re always seeking kind of short-term gain over long-term pain sort of thing. And it’s all about perception. So if we know what our guiding principles are, then when we have an experience of getting information from either an artificial source or a salient source or a living source sort of thing, either way, we can ask ourselves, how does that information make me feel?

And once I understand, well, why does it make me feel that way? Then we can ask ourselves the question of, OK, so is this information helping me move in the direction I want to go? And it’s also in line with my guiding principles.

So now you can start to ask some other questions around it. So that the information doesn’t become the only reason why you take an action. Again, that makes you very susceptible to being manipulated.

Ani
Sure. I think one of the things people wonder is what are we going to do with our extra time as AI can do more for us? And I think you’re really hitting on something.

I think one of the things that’s the most important thing to do as AI begins to take over some of the things that we used to take up our time is having more time to be intentional human beings. We can get caught up in the sea and the flow, the current of the energy that just move, move, move, move, move, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. But as you offload somebody helping you figure out what to make for dinner, for example, and you have an extra five or 10 minutes because they gave you the food plan and the shopping list and all that on AI.

Great. Spend that extra 10 minutes getting intentional with your life and regulating your nervous system and being a highly intentional human being. I think that’s one of the best things we could possibly do.

Brian
Absolutely. I love it. So keep seeking all sorts of information that would help you become the person that you really want to become, of course.

Question that information, not only question it, what it sounds like from the outside, but question how it makes you feel internally. And by question, I don’t mean necessarily kick it out right away. Just be curious about it.

Maybe that’s a better way. Be open, curious, and ask questions of yourself then. Well, why is it making me feel that way?

What core belief do I have that may interact with that in a certain way? Is this information going to help me move in the direction that I want to go to fulfill your intentions? We have to just be a little bit more, curate a little bit more all the information that’s coming in to be able to really become more conscious people in the world.

Ani
And be able to use these tools as tools rather than have the tools use us.

Brian
Exactly. Well said.

Ani
Thank you.

Brian
Great finishing point, Ani.

Ani
Thank you so much. Well, if you enjoyed this episode, we hope that you will join us for more. Like the show, leave us a review, all those things.

Share important episodes with a friend and we will see you next time.

Brian
Yep. Be back next week. Bye.